Ford RS200 Database

Everything you need to know about Ford of Boreham's legendary 80's Group B rally car

General Chat • John Wheeler's Group S RS200

John Wheeler's Group S RS200

Feel free to drop in here and chat about anything 200 related

Postby Nikki » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:48 pm

If you are an RS200 fan and like me went to the Eifel Rallye Festival this year you were in for a real treat. Though it was mentioned in the entry list as a Group S I'm sure many may have thought it was a printing mistake up until seeing this strange looking RS200 in the service park. Indeed John Wheeler, the man behind much of the RS200 engineering in the early days of the B200 project was presenting what should have been the RS200 which was planned for homologation in the still-born Group S.

At the beginning of 1986 and up until J.M. Balestre announced the simultaneous ban of Group B as well as Group S starting from the 1987 season, John and Ford were already working on a possible Group S version of the 200. After the ban the project seemingly got scrapped. However, similarly to what Beppe Volta did with the Lancia ECV (The Group S Delta S4 successor, presented at the "San Marino Rally Legend" last october) John Wheeler took on the project and completed one RS200 with the Group S specs.

The first thing that one notices is the absence of the roof mounted intercooler. Without this the car seems to have much smaller proportions. The other surprise is in the engine bay where the BDT has been replaced by a YB. Other noticeable changes include different aerodynamics with a newly designed front and rear spoiler.

Here are some pics:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Nikki
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Switzerland

Postby Nikki » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:02 pm

Here is a great article about this car from Adam Towler:

http://www.adamtowler.co.uk/rs200.html
User avatar
Nikki
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Switzerland

Postby Mike 2 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:42 am

Some great pics and info there.

I personally like the original RS200 looks which are much better than the Mk2 S project version.

If JW intention was to save weight I cant understand why he fitted an engine that is almost twice as heavy? unless Ford were to cast an alloy version at some stage? The cossie lump is more torquey and forgiving to drive though (I did love my cossie days!) and became more readily available as group A and production runs of 15,000 units came into being, so was that the main reason?

The reverse mounted turbocharger yet standard facing YB inlet manifold is a bit confusing when the BDA RS200 inlet can be easily fitted to a cossie lump (as a few KARA's have proved) and still have the overhead intercooler as per oem 200 (albeit in a reversed direction), then that reversed turbo set up would had made more sense allowing the exhaust to exit rearwards.

The air filter, pipework and small bore size does'nt make much sense especially with its long run, perhaps it had been done like that to mate it onto the original airbox?

The space frame concept is better for lightness although it is not built with removeable sections like the original so if you have a large knock the chances are that speedy service repairs would not be possible.

The front view reminds me of a Davrian, still rallied to this day!

CheeRS
Mike
Mike 2
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:21 am

Postby Nikki » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:24 pm

Must agree with you there Mike on quite a few points. Particularly the YB engine, though Cosworth did produce YB aluminium blocks, but I don't know if they would already have been available in 1987, probably not. Then again if minimum allowed weight could be reached with the YB the choice does make sense.

As you mention the filter position and the routing of the pipework is odd though we don't really know the details of the Group S regulation which ultimately were very sketchy at the time of cancellation. There was also talks of the power limit introduction with 350 then 300 bhp like later became the case in Gr. A. Perhaps the regulations already had a clause about limited intake diameter, or restrictor?

The positioning of the intercooler on the standard RS200 is one of the most visible identifiers of the model and I really like it too. Nevertheless it can't be argued that in terms of aerodynamics as well as weight distribution and center of gravity it just does not make sense. The placement in the "S" is clean and allows for a much bigger intercooler. It reminds me of the intercoolers on the Delta S4. Finally the space frame concept is very similar to what was done by Peugeot in the 205 T16 Evo 2. It allowed an good deal of wight saving and if thought well also accessibility to the engine bay.
User avatar
Nikki
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Switzerland

Postby Mike 2 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:22 pm

Thanks Nikki

I wasn't totally sure about the alloy YB engine block, as you say 1987 may have been a bit early, even though it was based on the old pinto.

Mike
Mike 2
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:21 am

Postby rs200replica » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:34 am

The reverse mounted turbocharger yet standard facing YB inlet manifold is a bit confusing when the BDA RS200 inlet can be easily fitted to a cossie lump (as a few KARA's have proved) and still have the overhead intercooler as per oem 200 (albeit in a reversed direction), then that reversed turbo set up would had made more sense allowing the exhaust to exit rearwards.


The YB in a Kara is turned 180 degrees compared to the engine in this car.
The engine output / gearbox is at the back of a Kara and obviously the output on a RS200 is at the front.
The cam belt is nearest to the rear bulkhead on a YB Kara thus being able to have the inlet manifold on the same side as the original BDA in this car you can clearly see the cambelt at the rear.
I am not 100% sure but going by these facts I would imagine that the inlet and exhaust ports are on opposite sides to each other on the YB and BDA.

One thing I have noticed about this car is that it does not have the overhang on the rear bulkhead with the little passenger compartment window in it thus allowing removal of the head and better access to the rear of the engine, Ideal for a Kara cambelt change!

Cheers Pete.
rs200replica
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:34 pm

Postby Nikki » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:43 am

rs200replica wrote:I am not 100% sure but going by these facts I would imagine that the inlet and exhaust ports are on opposite sides to each other on the YB and BDA.


They are indeed Pete. 8-)
User avatar
Nikki
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Switzerland

Postby Mike 2 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:10 pm

The YB in a Kara is turned 180 degrees compared to the engine in this car.
The engine output / gearbox is at the back of a Kara and obviously the output on a RS200 is at the front.


Thanks Pete, I knew about each layout, the point I was tying to make was that the BDT style inlet manifold could have easily been re-used as it is a far better design than the YB item.

Mike.
Mike 2
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:21 am

Postby rs200replica » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:19 am

Sorry Mike my misunderstanding!

I know a few Karas with the RS200 intake manifolds and they are not that easy a swap and I know an example that failed and almost ruined an engine.
Basically it is an RS200 Plenum and a YB Plenum cut and welded together to make it all fit plus on the KARA the angles are all wrong as the engine is fitted square upright but on this car it is fitted at a slight angle like a BDA so it may be an easier job?

Anyway it is a interesting car, was it one of the original 200 build or is it built up from parts?

Cheers

Pete
rs200replica
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:34 pm

Postby Nikki » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:57 am

rs200replica wrote:Anyway it is a interesting car, was it one of the original 200 build or is it built up from parts?
Pete


I think it is one of the original cars Pete as it has a full VIN number stamped in the right place. 8-)
User avatar
Nikki
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Switzerland

cron